He is a fictional detective.
列奥纳多·达·芬奇被控谋杀
Leonardo da Vinci is on trial for murder,
我试图找出所发生事情的背后真♥相♥
and I’m trying to find out the truth behind what happened.
那是在罗马最热的时候
It was around the hottest time in Rome.
外面是40度，没有空调
It was 40 degrees outside, no air-conditioning,
我们在这个小牢房♥里
and we were in this small cell.
我们在那一周或四天内拍摄了所有场景
And we shot all of our scenes in that week or in four days.
我真的很高兴能与艾丹共事
I’ve really relished getting to work with Aidan,
我们两个人经常挤在他牢房♥的这些狭窄空间里
and the two of us are often in these confined spaces together in his cell.
场景与大动作无关
And the scenes very much aren’t about the big action set pieces,
更突出不同角色之间的这些小细节
but more about these little minutiae between different characters.
若你是无辜的 证据在哪里
If you’re innocent, where’s your proof?
某种方式上 吉拉尔迪与列奥纳多之间的场景就像一个不同的表演
In some ways, the scenes between Giraldi and Leonardo feel like a different show.
智力游戏
The mind games.
就像我们两个之间的网球比赛
I guess these tennis matches between the two of us,
我真的很喜欢玩那些
and I’ve really enjoyed getting to play those.
我们一直在找你
We’ve been looking for you.
我有很多名字
I go by lots of names.
有人叫我塞莱 小恶魔
Some people call me Salai, little devil.
我热衷在剧本中写的角色
The characters I enjoy writing in my scripts
都是我所喜欢的
are among my favorites.
写作列奥纳多这一角色 当然有很多乐趣
I mean, Leonardo’s, of course, great fun to write.
我也特别喜欢塞莱这一角色。
I have a particular favorite as well, which is the character of Salai.
塞莱就是一街头混混
Salai is a street rat.
是个小偷 然后变成列奥纳多·达芬奇的
He’s a thief and becomes the assistant, the friend,
助手 朋友与学徒
the apprentice of Leonardo da Vinci.
他非常聪明 非常狡猾 非常好玩
He’s a very smart character, very devilish, very playful,
当然 对他的主人也非常非常忠诚
and, of course, very, very loyal to his maestro.
在与列奥纳多见面时 多数人都心怀尊重
Most people, when they meet Leonardo, are very respectful
并且总有种疏远
and treat him with a sort of remoteness.
塞莱不是这样 他是个贼 街头混混
Salai doesn’t. Salai is a thief, a street rat,
绝对不会对他心怀尊重
and has absolutely no sense of respect for him.
他们对话时, 他们之间有某种非常尖锐, 辛辣的戏谑
And when they talk, there’s a really sharp, spicy kind of banter between them.
写起来很有趣
And that’s really fun to write.
你叫什么名字
What’s your name?
你想成为什么
What would you like it to be?
一切对你来说只是个玩笑
Everything is just a joke to you.
列奥纳多在这个男孩身上看到很多自己
Leonardo sees a lot of himself in this boy.
他从街头带回他
He takes him from the streets
他是一个被生活拒绝的人
and he’s somebody who has been rejected by life also
也是一个需要爱与关注
and somebody who just needs
需要被信任的人
love and attention and somebody to trust.
他们彼此很早就发现这一点
And they find that with each other quite early.
即使他们的背景不同
Even they come from different backgrounds,
他们将一起度过一生
they are going to spend their life together.
因此 这种关系
So it’s a relationship
基于他们的相互忠诚
based on loyalty between them.
他们之间有非常纯粹的爱
And there is a very pure love between them.
这就是塞莱永远站在列奥纳多一边的原因
That’s why Salai is going to be always there for Leonardo.
塞莱是…他是…
Salai is… He was…
列奥纳多一生的挚爱之一
one of the big loves of Leonardo’s life.
事实上 只有少数人知道列奥纳多是个同性恋
One fact that not a lot of people know about Leonardo is that he was gay.
卡特里娜发现了这个事实
And so, Caterina discovers this about Leonardo,
列奥纳多自己也发现了
and he discovers it about himself.
我想 就这种同性恋的挣扎而言 这个故事非常现代
And I think it’s a story that feels very modern in terms of that struggle.
一个人 在他一生中遇到各种各样的问题
Here is a guy who encounters all sorts of problems in his life.
他的人际关系非常困难，性方面也有问题
He has very difficult relationships, problem with his sexuality,
与父母关系糟糕
terrible problem with his parents.
他的成长非常艰难
He had a very difficult upbringing.
他没有被父母抚养长大
He wasn’t brought up by either of his parents.
他真的遭到家人的虐待
And he was really mistreated by members of his family.
他长大后
And he grew up
并不真正相信他是可爱的, 他值得爱
not really believing that he was lovable, that he was worthy of love.
列奥纳多的焦虑来自他的家人
So much of Leonardo’s angst came from his family
来自他的成长过程
and how he was brought up.
他一直很讨厌被父亲拒绝
He was always quite resentful of being rejected by his father.
我没有要求出生
I didn’t ask to be born.
没有人要求你出生 列奥纳多
No one asked for you to be born, Leonardo.
你就是个错误
You are a mistake.
他有几个孩子
He had several kids,
但他从不爽快地认同列奥纳多，他不想要他
but he never very recognize Leonardo, he didn’t wanted him.
他后来才知道他是素食主义者
He understood later, he was a vegetarian,
在那个时代非常特别. 当然 同性恋更是如此
which was particular, for the time. Gay, certainly.
因此 他对他的儿子非常失望
So he was very disappointed by his son.
与皮耶罗合作 与罗宾合作
Working with Piero, working with Robin,
这些场景…总是很棘手
those scenes were… They were always tricky.
在这些场景中自然会充满 焦虑和活力
There was naturally a lot of angst and energy in those scenes.
这是一个威权关系
It’s an authority relation.
父亲很坚强
The father is very strong.
他待他不一定很严酷
He didn’t play him necessarily very cold.
但是 非常想知道 研究
But just knowing and researching so much,
也与丹交流: 究竟他与他父亲的关系
and just speaking to Dan about how much
会影响他有多深 确实有影响
his relationship with his father would have affected him, did affect him,
一直有影响
always affected him,
我们之间的这些场景确实说明了些什么
it just turned on something in those scenes between us.
但是他试图了解他的儿子
But he tries to understand his son,
但是他不能很好地了解他
but he can’t very well understand him.
这或许给了列奥纳多一些力量
And maybe it gave Leonardo some strength.
当然 这毁了他 但给了他力量
Of course, it destructed him but it gave him strength.
我最爱的角色
My favorite character,
我会说是
I would say,
卢多♥维♥科·斯福扎
Ludovico Sforza.
我不知道为什么 也许是因为我爱詹姆斯·达西
I don’t know why. Maybe because I love James D’arcy,
我爱他的卢多♥维♥科·斯福扎
and I love his Ludovico Sforza.
我认为斯福扎和卡特里娜之间的关系
I think the relationship between Sforza and Caterina
有趣在它的复杂性
is very interesting in its complexity,
但最终
but ultimately,
在我看来 这就像一场权力游戏。
it felt to me like it was a power game.
当然 这是你的选择。
That’s your choice, of course.
当然
Of course.
但实际上根本没有选择
But there really is no choice at all.
是的 詹姆斯很有趣
Yeah, James is fun.
詹姆斯是个好人 他是这些男演员之一
James is a great guy. He’s one of these actors
他体现了…
who, straight away, just embodied…
他就是角色 你明白的
He was the character, you know.
他马上就能入戏 他给角色带来很多幽默
He just felt right straight away, and he brought a lot of humor
太精彩了 感觉很棒
to the role, too, which was brilliant. It felt right.
你是列奥纳多吗?
You are Leonardo?
你知道我是谁吗?
Do you know who I am?
是的 陛下
Yes, your grace.
扮演关键角色令人兴奋的事情之一是
One of the exciting things about playing a character
实际上 你什么也不用做
who is in charge is, actually, you don’t have to do anything.
其它每个人都围绕着你在转
Everybody else does it for you.
这是很棒的角色 充满着矛盾
It’s a great character, it’s full of contradiction
总是越界
and over the line all the time.
他很疯狂
He’s crazy.
他是城♥堡♥的主人
He’s the boss of the castle,
但你从不知道他在想什么
but you never know what he’s thinking.
他时而迷人
He can be charming,
时而暴躁
he can be a tyrant,
时而平静
he can be quiet,
时而喧哗 他多变如此
he can be loud, he can be any one of those things.
但这更多与人们在法庭上对他的反应方式有关
But it’s much more to do with the way people react around him in court.
一个令人生畏的家伙和一个可怕的人
A menacing guy and scary person to have around,
但我认为他是艺术的赞助人
but I think he’s a patron of the arts,
我想就是因为这个原因
and I think for that reason alone,
列奥纳多很感激
it’s somebody that Leonardo appreciated.
我认为他挑战了他
I think he challenged him.
我认为他在某种程度上打开了他的想象力。
I think he opened his imagination, to some extent.
我认为他确实以某种方式推动了他
I think he did push him in ways
即使如列奥纳多·达芬奇这样的天才