[exhales]
[grunts, cries]
-你好啊 施图茨
[man] What’s up, Stutz?
-嗨 乔纳
[Stutz] Hi, Jonah.
[chuckles]
好吧 有啥新鲜事 说来听听
-[Stutz] Okay, entertain me. -[both laugh]
每次坐下来 你就是这么说的
[Jonah] That’s actually what you say when I sit down.
我对大家都是这么说的
It’s what I say to everybody.
是 去找你做治疗的时候 不是拍片的时候
Yeah, when we have a therapy session that’s not filmed for a movie.
你还常说一句话 总是逗我发笑 真的很棒
[Stutz laughs]
The…the other thing you…you say that always cracks me up, which is great,
就是“你最好别来这里 把自己的包袱全丢给我”
is, “You better not come in here and dump all your shit on me.”
是啊 你把包袱往我这里丢 已经丢了很多年了
No, yeah, you know, you’ve been dumping it on me for years,
我累了
and I’m tired.
[Jonah chuckles]
好了 说回正题
Well, here we are.
你觉得我为什么 要拍这部关于你的电影？
Why do you think I’m making this movie about you?
我觉得是因为我的想法
I think it’s…it’s my ideas.
因为我的想法对你产生了影响
I…I think my ideas had an effect on you,
所以你想让其他人也接触到这些想法
and I think you wanted to expose other people to the ideas.
也许…
And maybe…
我不知道 也许你只是企图控制我 或者…
I don’t know, maybe it’s just an attempt to gain control over me, or…
[Jonah laughs]
我不确定 是为什么呢？
I’m not sure. Why did you?
对 我决定拍这部电影 是因为我想把你的工具
Yeah, I have decided to make this because I want to present your tools
以及我的医师菲尔施图茨你的教诲
and the teachings of you, Phil Stutz, my therapist,
以一种让人们能够接触并利用
in a way that allows people to access them
来使自己的生活变得更好的方式 呈现出来
and use them to make their own life better.
所以我想花一天时间 拍摄我们的一次对话
So I thought we would just film one session in one day
介绍你的一些工具 对我的人生极有帮助的工具
and cover some of your tools
that have been most helpful for me in my life.
我觉得挺不错
I think that’s good.
同时也想用这部电影
And do it in a way that also honors,
向我深深在乎且尊重的人的一生致敬
um, the life of somebody that I deeply care about and respect.
好的
Okay.
但你偶尔幽默一下行不行？
But can you be funny once in a while? Just…
-[laughs] -Lovesick Blues” by Mason Ramsey plays]
施图茨的疗愈之道
你通常问病人的第一个问题是什么？
[Jonah] What’s usually the first question you ask a new patient?
问的第一件事是 “你想要什么？来这里是为了什么？”
The first thing I ask themis, “What do you want? Why are you here?”
一般的精神科医师会说 “不要干涉病人的过程
The average shrink will say, “Don’t intrude on the patient’s process.”
等他们准备好了 自然会有答案”
“They will come up with the answers when they’re ready.”
烂透了 那是不可接受的
That sucks. That’s not acceptable.
我入这行的时候 精神科治疗强调的是医师的中立
When I got into psychiatry, the model was, “I’m neutral.”
“我只是个旁观者 我的个人利益不受影响”
“I’m just watching. I have no dog in this fight.”
治疗过程是非常缓慢的 病人们受尽折磨
It was a very slow process, and there was a lot of suffering.
你懂我的 我的反应就是
You know me, my reaction will be,
“那去死吧 你跟我开玩笑呢？”
“Then go fuck yourself. Are you kidding me?”
如果我面对的是 害怕自己好不起来的抑郁症患者
[laughs]
If I’m dealing with someone with depression like that,
那我会说 “完全按照我他妈说的去做”
who’s afraid won’t recover,
I say, “Do what the fuck I tell you. Do exactly what I tell you.”
“我保证你会感觉好点 我百分之百保证”
“I guarantee you’ll feel better. Guarantee, 100%. It’s on me.”
当我走进你的办公室的时候 我们坐下来
[Jonah] When I walked into your office, we sat down,
你就告诉我“你应该这么做”
and you were just like, “Here’s what you should do.”
你给了我可以采取的行动 你给了我一个工具
You gave me some form of action. You gave me a tool.
对 这是必须的
Yeah, it’s…it’s imperative.
我想要速度
I wanted speed in this.
不是在一周内把人治好的速度 那是不可能的
Not speed to cure somebody in a week. That’s impossible.
而是想让患者感受到一些变化
But I wanted them to feel some change,
一些前进的动力
some forward motion.
这给予他们希望 让他们知道这实际上是可能的
It gives them hope.
It’s like, “Oh, shit, that’s actually possible.”
那么 什么是工具？
So what are the tools?
工具是能够立即实时地改变
A tool is something that can change your state, your inner state,
你的内在状态的东西
immediately, in real time.
它把通常为不愉快的经历
It takes an experience that’s normally unpleasant,
转化为机会
then it turns it into an opportunity.
工具改变你的情绪
Tools change your mood
并且让你看到 自己的情绪不会一直糟下去的希望
and then just give you a sense of hope that that won’t be your mood forever.
没错
[Stutz] That’s correct.
基本上就是你在那一刻
[Jonah] It’s basically a real-time visualization exercise
在脑海里进行的一种实时可视化练习
you do in your head at that moment.
对 从这个意义上说 我是个老师
Yeah. So in that sense, I’m a teacher.
我教病人如何使用它 也教他们什么时候使用它
I’m teaching the person how to use it and also teach them when to do it.
你所有的病人 包括我自己在内 都有这些笔记卡
All of your patients, myself included, we have all these note cards.
你在笔记卡上画了 我们在治疗中所用到的工具
[Stutz laughs]
[Jonah] And they’re drawings of the tools that you do in our sessions
让我们带回家去
that we take home and keep.
我倾向于从视觉角度进行思考
[Stutz] I tend to think in visual terms.
所以便开始画这些卡片 纯粹是为了自己
So I started drawing these cards really for myself,
但它们给病人带来了极大的帮助
but it helped the patients tremendously.
卡片的力量在于 它们把宏大的想法转化为简单的图像
The power of the cards is that they turn big ideas into simple images.
这是一种与病人沟通的方式
It was a way of communicating with the patient
我觉得这种方式比语言更有力
that I actually felt was more powerful than using words.
病人拿出卡片的那一刻
The moment they take out the card,
我和他之间就有了联♥系♥ 有了纽带
there’s a connection between the two of us. There’s a bond.
对 我俩有一种独特的个人关系
Yeah, we have a uniquely personal relationship.
独特到你愿意 让我拍一部关于你的电影
So much so that you’re letting me make a film about you.
这是我在治疗界从未经历过的事情
That is something I’ve never experienced in the therapeutic world.
最终我的生活因为有你的帮助 而得到了巨大的改善
And, ultimately,
my life has gotten immeasurably better as a result of working with you,
所以 如果对我有效 也许对其他人也会有效
and so, if it worked for me, maybe it will work for other people.
-[alarm blares] -Um…
对了 到时间吃药了
Oh, yeah. Time for medicine.
-到时间做什么？ -到时间吃药了
-Time for what? -[Jonah] Time to take your medicine.
-哦 谢谢 -闹钟响了
-Oh, thanks. -[Jonah] The alarm went off.
哎呀
[Stutz] Oh, shit.
[grunts]
乔纳 要不要和我一起 嗑点帕金森病的药？
Jonah, you want to do some Parkinson’s drugs with me?
[Jonah laughs]
我多年前就戒掉那玩意儿了
I kicked the stuff years ago, man.
你知道吗？我年轻时也嗑过药
[Stutz] You know, when I was a kid, when I was using drugs,
如果那时候你告诉我 50年后的我得吃这么多药…
if you ever told me, “50 years hence you’d be taking all this medicine…
所以这些都是 治疗你的帕金森病的药？
So that’s all medicine for your Parkinson’s?
对
Yeah.
得了帕金森病的最大问题在于
With Parkinson’s, the biggest thing is, and there’s something good about this,
很多小事情你都必须预先计划好 但这也有好处
you have to preplan a lot of little things.
当我要下床的时候
When I have to get out of bed,
身体必须经过一番扭曲才能下床
I have to go through contortions to get out of the bed.
对我来说 人生中最困难的事莫过于早上起床
The hardest thing for me in life is getting out of bed in the morning.
-但原因截然不同 -不同 对
-But for very different reasons. -For different…[chuckles] Yeah.
是啊
So, before meeting you, my experience with therapy was very traditional
在遇见你之前 我的治疗经历都是非常传统的
就是我在倾诉
in the sense of I would be talking
然后对方会说 “这让你有何感受？”或者“有意思”
and the person would say, “How does that feel?”
-Or, “Interesting.” [laughs] -[Stutz] Right.
基本上与我保持着巨大的距离
Basically keeping me at a massive distance.
我就在想 在传统的治疗中
Yeah.
[Jonah] And I was thinking about how, in traditional therapy,
你付钱给这个人 然后把问题都扔给他们
you’re paying this person, and you save all of your problems for them,
他们就只管倾听
and they just listen,
而你的白♥痴♥朋友们
and your friends, who are idiots,
-却给你建议 -是
give you advice.
-不请自来的建议 -是
-[Stutz] Yes. -Unsolicited.
可你只希望你的朋友们能倾听
-[Stutz] Yes. -And you want your friends just to listen.
而你希望你的医师能给你建议
[laughs]
And you want your therapist to give you advice.
事情是这样的 医师们并不是不想帮你
Here’s the thing.
The shrinks, it’s not that they don’t want to help you.
真的不是
It’s really not.
但对我来说 我总觉得还缺了点什么
But for me, I always felt there was something missing.
所以工具是一座桥梁
So a tool is a bridge
把你从意识到问题是什么 以及问题背后的原因
between what you realize the problem is and the cause of the problem
带到这里
to over here,
对症状至少有一定程度的控制
actually gaining at least some control over the symptom.
这一切都与可能性有关
It all has to do with possibility.
不是什么狗屁定义的可能性
And not a bullshit definition of possibility.
可能性意味着 你感觉到自己的反应不一样了
Possibility means you feel yourself reacting differently.
这听起来…
It sounds, um…
怎么说来着？ 听起来很陈腐 但这是事实
What do you call it? Trite. But it’s actually the truth.