So then all I had to do was look up and see a lot of windows,
于是我说”噢 窗户 对了”
and say, “Oh, windows, of course,”
那是怎样的窗户 对吧 还有
But what kind of windows? Right? And…
不止那样
Not only that…
“摩洛神的眼睛” 对吧
“Moloch whose eyes”… Right?
“摩洛神的眼睛” 这很好 可是
“Moloch whose eyes” which is beautiful in itself but…
你知道 他的眼睛是什么
you know, what about it?
“摩洛神的眼睛” 然后呢
“Moloch whose eyes” what?
“摩洛神的眼睛”…
“Moloch whose eyes”…
下一个我想到的大概是
Then the next thing I thought was probably…
“一千”
“Thousands.”
好的 可”一千”个什么
OK, but “thousands” what?
“一千个瞎了的”
“Thousands blind”…
然后我得结尾 于是
And then I had to finish it somehow. So…
我找到了”窗户”
I had to say “windows.”
摩洛神的眼睛是千扇堵死的窗户
Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows
摩洛神的摩天大楼
Moloch whose skyscrapers
沿街矗立像数不清的耶♥和♥华♥
stand in the long streets like endless Jehovahs
摩洛神的工厂在烟雾中做梦呻♥吟♥
Moloch whose factories dream and croak in the fog
摩洛神的爱欲是耗不尽的石油和石头
Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone
摩洛神的灵魂是电力和银行
Moloch whose soul is electricity and banks
摩洛神的命运是一朵没有爱欲的氢气云
Moloch whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen
摩洛神置我于孤独中
Moloch in whom I sit lonely
摩洛神占据我梦中的天使
Moloch in whom I dream angels
疯狂于摩洛神之中
Crazy in Moloch
与同性放荡于摩洛神之中
Cocksucker in Moloch
失去爱情和雄性于摩洛神之中
Lacklove and manless in Moloch
摩洛神钻入我幼小的灵魂
Moloch who entered my soul early
摩洛神吓跑我天生的痴迷
Moloch who frightened me out of my natural ecstasy
我要抛弃摩洛神
Moloch whom I abandon
从摩洛神中觉醒
Wake up in Moloch
让光明从天堂流泻
Light streaming out of the sky
摩洛神 摩洛神
Moloch Moloch
机器人公♥寓♥
Robot apartments
无形的郊区
Invisible suburbs
骷髅般的国库
Skeleton treasuries
盲目的资本
blind capitals
魔鬼般的工业
Demonic industries
幽灵国家
Spectral nations
无敌的疯人院
Invincible mad houses
花岗岩阴♥茎♥
Granite cocks
巨大的炸♥弹♥
Monstrous bombs
他们拼死将摩洛神举到天堂
They broke their backs lifting Moloch to Heaven
人行道 树木
Pavements, trees
将城市托到天堂
Lifting the city to Heaven
它存在着 无处不在
which exists and is everywhere about us
梦想
Dreams
爱慕
Adorations
光明
Illuminations
宗教
Religions
一整船敏感的胡言乱语
The whole boatload of sensitive bullshit
寻找决口
Breakthroughs
奔冲过河
Over the river
翻滚汹涌
Flips and crucifixions
洪水回落
Gone down the flood
感悟
highs Epiphanies
绝望
Despairs
十年来动物般悲鸣自取灭亡
Ten years’ animal screams and suicides
充斥着疯狂念头的新一代
Minds new loves mad generation
冲向时光的岩石
Down on the rocks of time
河中荡漾的笑声真实而神圣
Real holy laughter in the river
他们目睹这一切
They saw it all
狂热的眼睛 神圣的叫喊
The wild eye the holy yells
他们告别
They bade farewell
他们跳离屋顶 投向孤独
They jumped off the roof to solitude
挥手
Waving
举着鲜花
Carrying flowers
跳入河流
Down to the river
走向街道
Into the street
我认为 假如它有任何文学价值
It is my opinion that if it has any literary value,
也是微不足道的
it’s negligible.
我尽量以客观的方式
I endeavored to arrive at my opinion
表达我的观点
on an objective basis.
举例说
For example,
一部伟大的文学作品 或说一部相当伟大的作品
a great literary work, or even a fairly great literary work,
都有一套非常成功的形式
would obviously be exceedingly successful in form,
这首诗只是无力地模仿这种
but this poem is really just a weak imitation
大卫·科克
英语教授 圣弗朗西斯科大学
80、90年前由惠特曼创始的诗歌♥形式
of a form that was used 80 to 90 years ago by Walt Whitman.
你能想起那首诗的名字吗
And do you recall the name of that poem?
诗名是《草叶集》
“Leaves of Grass” was the name of the poem.
文学价值也应体现在主题上
Literary value could also reside in theme,
并且我认为“嚎叫”的主题
and what little literary value there is in “Howl,”
确实存有些许的文学价值
it seems to me does come in theme.
诗意的阐述相对透彻
The statement of the idea of the poem was relatively clear,
但缺乏合理性 因此
but it has little validity, and, therefore, the theme
主题带有负面价值
has a negative value.
毫无价值
No value at all.
谢谢
Thank you.
你刚才说
Did I understand you to say that
金斯堡盗用了惠特曼的风格是吗
Ginsberg used Walt Whitman’s style?
诗歌♥的形式
The form.
《草叶集》的形式
The form of the book ”Leaves of Grass.”
整因为金斯堡运用了这种形式
And because of Ginsberg’s using this format,
你就认为《嚎叫》这首诗
it is your opinion that the poem ”Howl”
没有任何文学价值或者说…
has no literary value or…
优点 对吗
merit, is that true?
在形式的基础上 是的
On the basis of form, that’s correct,
因为伟大的文学作品会在具有
because great literature always creates
象征性意义的时刻创造独特的形式
its own form for each significant occasion.
那样来说 你认为
By that, you do not mean that
惠特曼的《草叶集》是很有价值的吗
Walt Whitman’s “Leaves of Grass” doesn’t quite qualify?
那是一部伟大的文学作品
That is great literature.
那种形式是由惠特曼创造的
The form was created by Walt Whitman.
同时你说因为
And at the same time, you say, because
金斯堡复♥制♥了那种形式
Ginsberg copied that format,
《嚎叫》就没有任何价值和优点 对吗
“Howl” has no value or merit, am I correct?
是这样的
That is correct.
赝品永远都不会有原作的价值
An imitation never does have the value of the original.
惠特曼是复♥制♥的谁呢
Who did Walt Whitman copy?
据我所知 没有
To my knowledge, no one.
但你不知道
But you don’t know,
不是你的答案 你不知道 是吗 先生
isn’t that your answer, you don’t know, sir?
是的
That’s right.
我记得 你另一个观点
As I understand, your next signpost
是“嚎叫”的思想
is that the idea
很明确但缺乏合理性
of “Howl” is clear, but has little validity.
我说的对吗
Am I quoting you correctly?
那是总体评价 是的…
That’s the general conclusion, yes…
在主题上《嚎叫》的思想很明确
the idea of ”Howl” is clear in theme.
-思想很明确吗 -是的
– The idea is clear? – yes.
金斯堡在《嚎叫》中表达什么思想呢
What idea does Ginsberg have in ”Howl”?
他颂扬某人不幸的一生…
Well, he celebrates the unfortunate life of…
记不起来那个男主人公的名字了 所罗门
I can’t remember the man’s name, Solomon…
这个男人不幸的一生 所罗门
the unfortunate life of the man, Solomon,
信仰达达主义的流浪汉
who is a drifter of Dadaist persuasion.
什么流浪汉
A drift what?
信仰达达主义的流浪汉
Drifter of Dadaist persuasion.
他描述出来了吗
He portrays that?
是的
That’s correct.
那个描述有合理性吗