撩起憔悴女侍生的衬裙
lonely petticoat upliftings,
我觉得这就是《嚎叫》式的痛苦
I think it’s a Howl of pain.
形象点说 就像他的脚趾被人踩了
Figuratively speaking, his toes have been stepped on.
他把他痛苦的叫喊和抗♥议♥
He’s poetically putting his cry of pain and
用诗歌♥来体现 这就是《嚎叫》
protest into this book, “Howl”.
你认为这本书确实有艺术价值吗
And do you think this book has definite literary value?
是的
I do.
《旧金山纪实报》 文学批评家
事实上 我认为
As a matter of fact, I think in a way
他运用了爵士乐式的遣词造句
he is employing the jazz phraseology here
可以说
and, may I say, I…
他把人生路上 形形色♥色♥的经历中
I think he’s also employing the words he heard
所学的词都运用到了作品中
in his life on the road and in his various experiences.
谢谢
Thank you.
你认识这本书中的大部分词汇吗
Now, do you understand most of the words in this book?
我能理解它们的意思
I think I understand their significance
和使用的语境
and the general context of it.
明白了
I see.
请翻到13页
Taking on page 13,
第14行
the 14th line:
“他们跪倒在地铁嚎叫
“Who Howled on their knees in the subway
抖动着性器 挥舞着手稿
and were dragged off
被拖下屋顶”
the roof waving genitals and manuscripts.”
请你告诉我《嚎叫》
Now, do you understand what that paragraph is trying to say,
这段想表达什么
as a part of the “Howl”?
我的理解不尽然对
Not explicitly.
我觉得他试图通过笔下的人物
I would say he was attempting to show the…
表现二战后的某些群体
lack of inhibition in the persons he’s talking of,
他们缺乏自我约束力
post World War II generation…
这些二战后马上重返校园
Those who returned,
或重新开始工作的人
went into college or went into work immediately after WW II
很可能心里深受战争创伤
perhaps were somewhat displaced by the chaos of the war and
并不能立马平复
didn’t immediately settle down.
好 那么下一段
Now, the next paragraph:
“他们放纵口♥交♥
“who blew and were blown
也任由人间的六翼天使和水手们舔弄自己
by those human seraphim, the sallors,
那是来自大西洋州和加勒比海的爱抚”
“caresses of Atlantic and Carlbbean love.”
你能理解”口♥交♥”与”舔弄”的含义吗
Now, you understand what “blew” and “blown” mean?
我觉得这些词有不止一个意思
Well, I think they are words that have several meanings.
你认为这段诗中的这两个词是什么意思
What meanings do you attribute to the words in this paragraph?
一方面可以指 他们是流浪者
It can at one level mean… that they were vagabonds,
被自然中的 实体的风吹拂着
that they were being blown about by natural, literal winds.
另一方面 可能有性的隐喻
On the other hand, perhaps it does have a sexual connotation.
是指口♥淫♥ 对吗
In reference to oral copulation, right?
对 可能是
Yes, possibly.
那么 你认为那些词汇
Now then, do you find that those words
对于体现这部作品的文学价值
are necessary to the context
是必需的吗
to make it a work of literary value?
我认为我们已经讨论过这一点了 法官大人
I thought we had settled this, your Honor.
是的 麦托时先生 如果你还记得
Yes, Mr. McIntosh, if you will recall,
我说过我不允许使用”必需”这个字眼
I said that I would not allow the use of the word “necessary.”
不过你可以问这样的问题 “它们是否相关”
But you may ask the question, “Are they relevant?”
它们和这篇作品的文学价值相关吗
Are they relevant to make this a work of literary value?
是的 我认为是的
Yes, I would say so.
那么要是你把这些词去掉
Now then if you took those words out of there,
会损害这篇作品吗
would that spoil the portrayal?
这是在拐弯抹角地问
That’s doing indirectly what
法官大人不允许直接问的问题
your Honor won’t permit him to do directly.
这位先生是一个专家
This man is an expert.
他需要作出推断
He has to speculate.
不 麦托时先生 恐怕我不同意你的做法
No, Mr. McIntosh, I’m afraid I can’t go along with you on that.
如果作者使用了别的不一样的词
Whether the author might have used other or different words,
你正在进行这样的臆测
you’re getting into the realm of speculation there.
反对有效
Objection sustained.
接着往下看
Going down a little further…
“他们花言巧语诱使百万姑娘
“who sweetened the snatches of a million girls
因欢情而颤抖在落日时分 清晨时双眼通红
“trembling in the sunset, and were red eyed in the morning
却仍准备攫住日出片刻美景 及那躲藏在仓库里
“but prepared to sweeten the snatch of the sunrise,
闪动的屁♥股♥ 和湖中赤♥裸♥的身影”
“flashing buttocks under barns and naked in the lake.”
你的问题是什么
What’s your question?
诗中的”时刻”这个词是否
Is that word “snatches” in there…
是否
is that…
与金斯堡先生的文学意图有关?
relevant to Mr.Ginsberg’s literary endeavor?
有的 我认为在这个问题上闪烁其辞
Yes. I think to use euphemisms in describing this would…
是对金斯堡先生的欺骗
seem dishonest to Mr.Ginsberg.
你还说过:我认为 文学价值有时候就是
You also said, I believe, literary value sometimes
一本能经受住任何时间的考验的书
is a book which will survive any test of time.
你认为金斯堡先生的作品能经受住时间的考验吗
Do you think Mr.Ginsberg’s work will survive the test of time?
他不可能知道
He has no way of knowing,
就像以前有些人认为
no more than some people
《草叶集》不能经受时间的考验一样
thought “Leaves of Grass” would survive.
我是在询问他的意见
I’m asking him for his opinion,
关于这本书的意见
to give us an opinion on that book.
他说文学价值
He says that literary value
取决于能否经受时间的考验
depends on surviving the test of time.
我想知道这本书能不能
I want to know if it will.
要是路瑟·尼古拉能回答这个问题
If Luther Nichois could answer that,
那上帝倒要
then the Good Lord could
请他到天堂去当顾问
use a helper and he ought to be up there.
他怎么可能知道
How can he tell?
我在询问他作为专家的意见
I’m asking for his opinion as an expert.
我来问他
I’ll ask him.
你能回答这个问题吗
Can you answer the question?
这个问题需要作出预测
It calls for a prediction.
我认为这次诉讼会使人们更关注这本书
I think that this trial will draw attention to it.
《嚎叫》会因此拥有
“Howl” will have a wider
比以前更广泛的读者群
readership than it might otherwise have had,
而且向着可能更具有或者更缺乏文学性
and may go down in history as a stepping stone along the way
的诗歌♥形式的探索道路上会成为一块垫脚石
to greater or lesser liberallty in the permitting of poems of its type.
诗 大体说来 是…
Poetry, generally, is a…
有韵律地表达感情
rythmic articulation of feeling.
而感情
And the feeling is
是一种发自内心的冲动
an impulse that begins inside.
就像是性冲动 对吧 基本上就是这样
Like a sexual impulse, you know. Almost as definite as that. It’s
这种感情发源于胃部的深处 对吧
It’s a feeling that begins, in the pit of the stomach, right?
然后从胸中升起
And rises up through the breast, and…
抒发于嘴巴和耳朵 对吧
out the mouth and ears, right?
然后
And…
成为低语或呻♥吟♥或叹息 对吧
it comes forth as a croon or a groan or a sigh, right?
所以如果你举目四顾
So if you try to put words to that
想要找到合适的词
by looking around you and
来描述这种让你叹息的莫名感情
trying to describe what’s making you sigh,
这种言语上的叹息
just sigh in words,
这就是在表达你的感情
you simply articulate what you’re feeling.
他们撕咬侦探的后颈 在警车里兴奋地怪叫
who bit detectlives in the neck and shrieked with delight
因为犯下的罪行不过是
In police cars for committing no crime,
他们自己进行了狂野的鸡♥奸♥和吸毒
but their own wild cooking pederasty and intoxication,
他们跪倒在地铁里嚎叫
who howled on their knees in the subway
抖动着性器 挥舞着手稿
and were dragged off the roof
被拖下屋顶
waving genitais and manuscripts,
写作的时候
In the moment of composition,
我不一定知道它的含义
I don’t necessarily know what it means.
过一阵子它才开始显现出含义
It comes to mean something later,
一两年之后 我开始明白
after a year or two, I come to realize
它无比清晰的含义
it meant something clear,
下意识地
unconsciously.
获得含义总需要时间 就像是
Which takes on meaning in time, you know like…
一张缓慢显影的照片
a photograph developing slowly.
如果写作全然出于自发
If it’s at all spontaneous,
有时候我甚至不知道它是否真有意义
I don’t know whether it even makes sense sometimes.
有时候 我知道它意义非凡