国家美术馆（2014）

想要打击以色列人的势力
want to bring down the power of the Israelites
尤其是击败参孙
and in particular, to break Samson.
他们想要改进他们的秘密武器 达丽拉
They are going to advance their secret weapon, Delilah,
让她去勾引参孙 因此他们才能打垮以色列人
and have her seduce Samson so that they can destroy the Israelites.
某种程度上这是一个间谍故事
In a sense, you’ve got a spy story –
一个美丽的间谍去和敌人睡觉
you’ve got the beautiful spy going off to sleep with the enemy.
在圣经中 我们多次听到这个故事
In the biblical account, we’re told how time after time,
她打扮得非常漂亮地去了他的驻扎帐篷
she goes to his campaign tent all decked up and looking gorgeous,
想要找出他战无不胜力量所在的秘密
trying to find out where his strength lies.
他一次又一次地撒谎了
Time after time after time, he lies,
但是他对她的欲望越来越强烈
but his desire for her becomes so great that bit by bit,
一次又一次的相会后
visit after visit,
最终他告诉了她
he finally tells her.
我要你们都想象一下如果你是一个间谍
I want all of you to imagine that you are a spy
你被你的人♥民♥ 你的部落 你的国家派去
and that you have been sent by your people, your tribe, your nation,
假装一个友好的人 从敌人那里获取秘密
to be very nice and get secrets out of the enemy.
一开始 敌人就是敌人
First of all, the enemy is the enemy
但是当你和敌人喝了几次酒 吃了几次饭 聊过几次天之后
but after you’ve had a drink or two, a meal, chat with the enemy
而且还要假装爱着那个敌人
and pretended to love the enemy,
你会开始对敌人有不一样的感觉
you are beginning to feel differently towards the enemy.
假装的东西
What has been pretended..
也许会成真
might become real.
它会扰乱你的心绪
It messes with your mind.
我想鲁本斯 这幅伟大的心理表现的作品的创作者
I think Rubens, who is this painter of great psychological import,
知道达丽拉心里所想的
has realised what’s going on in the mind of Delilah.
她假装爱着参孙 可能最后真的爱上了
She has pretended to and perhaps eventually come to feel love
最后她和参孙上♥床♥了
and she has finally slept with Samson.
他睡着了 这有可能发生
He has fallen asleep, this can happen…
她知道他欲望的得以实现
She knows that this consummation of his desire
会直接导致他的死亡
is going to lead directly to his death.
腓力斯人直接涌入打开的门
The Philistines are emerging through the open door there,
火光闪耀 倒映在战士们的盔甲上
flames shining, reflecting on their armour.
我们能看到这个密封的窗帘
We’ve got this hermetic sealant of curtain,
紫色 深紫色的窗帘悬挂着
purple, rich purple curtain hanging,
她的裙子深红色
the rich scarlet of her dress,
她斗篷的金色 都使得这幅画丰富而又强烈
the gold of her cloak making this hot and rich.
加上各种光源 还有这个隐藏的理发
Various light sources are adding to this, plus the covert haircut.
这个老妇人拿着这个蜡烛
The candle is being held by this old woman
非常小心地 理发师在剪第一刀
and very carefully, the barber is making his first incision.
我们看不到达丽拉得意的表情 她不会说
We’re not looking at a Delilah triumphant, she’s not going,
太棒了 逮着你了 对吧
“Yes, gotcha!” is she?
她看起来很模棱两可
She’s looking ambiguous.
她温柔地趴在他身上 可能表情很沮丧
She is bending tenderly over him with perhaps a look of dismay,
我不会告诉你她在想什么
I’m not going to tell you what you think she’s feeling,
我们每个人有不同的解读 但是她的身体在向后倾斜
we’ll all read it differently, but her body is leaning away.
她的另一只手 也就是左手
On the one hand, literally, on the left hand, there’s a tender
温柔地放在参孙的背上 但是另一只手远离了他
gesture of hand on back, but the other hand is away from him.
这确实是一方面是这样 另一方面是那样
It really is on the one hand and on the other.
长时间以来 她一直在努力引诱参孙
She has, over the time that she has been trying to seduce Samson,
就像任何一个人
as any human being would
都会经历一系列的心理活动一样
gone through a series of mental transformations.
这是很让人沮丧的事
It must be very distressing now
意识到这个与她有着千丝万缕的关系的男人
to realise that the man that she has just had these relations with
将要死去 而且直接
is now going to die, directly,
是由她造成的
as a consequence of her actions.
她 我一直有点犹豫用这个词
She has… And I’m hesitating to use this word.
她背叛了他
She has betrayed him.
但是她肯定在心里自认为
But then she must think to herself,
不 我做的一切都是为了我的国家
“But, no. I was working for my country.
如果我不这么做就是背叛我的国家
“To have done otherwise would have been to betray my country.”
这事关背叛
It’s about betrayal,
关乎整个部落 整个国家的希望
it’s about notions of one’s tribe, or people,
关乎
and about what, perhaps, might be
任何一个置于此种境地的人可能所想的
happening in the mind of anyone put into this kind of position.
但是想象一下 如果你
But imagine, if you will, now,
走进了布格尔迈斯特之家
going into the house of the Burgermeister
在他的壁炉上看到这幅画
and seeing this above his fireplace.
你和布格尔迈斯特一道站在那里
And there you would be, with the Burgermeister,
背后有一幅巨大的
with a rather large painting behind you
达利拉的画像 她的胸部裸♥露♥
of Delilah with her breasts uncovered
你会说什么呢
What would you say?
你需要把画作
You have to view paintings,
或者叙事画 看成早期电影
or narrative paintings, as early films.
或者一种娱乐方式
And as forms of entertainment.
因此艺术家必须决定
So the artist has to decide at what point of the story are they going…
他 或她 想要着重表现故事的哪个点
Is he or she going to focus on?
同样的 当你自己在创作的时候
So, again, when you come to your work,
当你有了许多不同想法之后 你要筛选
when you’ve had all your different ideas, you have to sift through…
哪一个瞬间 哪一个点
Which moment? What point?
哪里是高♥潮♥
What’s the climax?
对你来说 你可以表现的最重要的点
What, to you, is the most important thing you can communicate?
怎样你才能最好表现那种邂逅
And how can you interpret that form of encounters,
那些经历 那些偶遇
experiences, or chance meetings, the best?
绘画是非常模棱两可的
Paintings are very, very ambiguous.
你可以从一个角度看它
You can look at them in one way,
也可以用另一个方式解读它
you can interpret them in another.
随着你的经验的积累
And as your experiences change…
我知道 因为我每天都来这里 这些画都在变
And I know, because I…come in here every day, paintings change.
你如何看待他们也会变化
And how you look at them changes as well.
我们能直接讨论运动救援这个项目的提议吗
Well, can we get straight on to and propose Sport Relief?
我不认为把前廊用于其他各种用途
I don’t see that the use of the portico for various purposes
和在美术馆前做投影有什么不同
is much different from the idea of projecting things onto the front of the gallery,
这可是我们以前坚决反对的
which we’ve always resolutely objected to
以对我们有许多机会为由
on the grounds that it’s a tremendous opportunity for us,
如果我们真正要为美术馆做一些事情的话
if we’re doing something for the gallery.
我的意思是 有很多角度来看待这个问题
I mean, there are various ways of looking at it,
但是 我认为最好的决定
but I think the right decision was
就是不要让人们投射东西在那
that we should not have people projecting things,
把我们的前廊当成一个公告板
using our facade as a billboard, if you like
因为这减弱了任何
because it diminishes the impact of any occasion
我们想去做这个项目的场所的影响力
where we wish to do it.
而且这让我们看起来就像是卖♥♥东西的 说实话
But it also just looks as if we’re up for sale, you know? Frankly.
我知道有其他的方式去看待
I mean, I know there’s an alternative way of looking at it,
美术馆也能获得公众的关注
which is that everyone gains publicity for the gallery,
但 事实上是这样吗 这是我们想要的宣传
but does it, actually, get the right type of publicity?
我们想要的认可吗
Right type of recognition?
这是个有趣的问题
This is the interesting question.
我更倾向于说不
I’m inclined to say no.
显然 这是家有好的
Obviously, it’s a very worthy
慈善机构 但是这比其他一百多家的慈善机构更值得吗
charity, but is it more worthy than 100 other charities?
我们需要找到平衡的其中一点
One of the things we need to balance it, again,
是它的声望
is the profile aspect of it.
这对我们来说是个潜在机会
It is an opportunity for us, potentially,
去更加参与到
to take a little bit more involvement, if you like,
有可能被
in something that has the potential
一亿八百万观众收听收看到的项目中去
to be broadcast to 18 million viewers.
而我认为那就是我们寻求的平衡 不是吗
And I think that’s the balance, isn’t it?
你知道的 是
You know, is it…
我们 我们是不是要么庆幸没有和
Are we… Are we either happy not to align ourselves
这些已选的慈善机构结盟
with these chosen charities,
或者我们就是认为这将来就是会发生的
or do we think it’s going to happen anyway?
我们要不要尝试着拥有一点所有权
Should we, perhaps, try and take a bit more ownership of it and…
不好意思 什么会发生
Sorry, what’s going to happen anyway?
这活动总是会发生的
Well, the event is going to happen anyway.
我们并不是被咨♥询♥是否我们想要
We weren’t consulted about whether we wanted something
会妨碍到国家美术馆进出的项目
to obstruct access to the National Gallery.
我们从没说过 我们想要一个
We would never have said, “We want a marathon to end
终点在国家美术馆的马拉松
“in front of the National Gallery.”
因为一个马拉松 马拉松的终点
Because a marathon… The end of a marathon
需要两边都站满人
involves people on either side,