Why’d you go back after Geneva?
因为钱的问题 而且我也想住在日本
‘Cause the money, and ’cause I wanted to live in Japan.
其实 也因为奥巴马
And because of Obama, actually.
我以为他上台后 事情会有所好转
You know, I thought things were gonna get better with him.
但我错了
I was wrong.
在那里是什么感觉
What was it like there?
我每天的首要任务
Well, in the first part of my day,
就是写一个
I was building this
名叫”史诗避难所”的全天候备份系统
round-the-clock backup system called Epic Shelter.
如果发生了什么灾难
So, if there was some catastrophe,
比如说 恐♥怖♥份♥子♥烧毁了中东的
say, uh, terrorists burned down every embassy
所有国♥家♥安♥全♥局据点和大使♥馆♥
and NSA post in the Middle East.
这个程序会确保 我们不会丢失任何数据
This program would ensure we wouldn’t lose any of that data.
但有时候 有访客来的话
But then, I would have
我就得先放下这个工作
to put it aside when visitors would show up.
嗨 爱德
Hi, Ed.
国♥家♥安♥全♥局想给日本人展示一下我们的实力
NSA wanted to impress the Japanese, show them our reach.
他们很喜欢能直播无人机
They loved the live drone feeds.
这是巴基斯坦上空
This is over Pakistan.
实时画面
Right now.
得知我们想要他们的帮助 来监视日本民众的时候
They were not as thrilled to learn that we wanted them to help us
他们并不高兴
spy on the Japanese population.
说这在日本是违法的
They said it was against their laws.
不过 我们还是窃听了整个国家
Course we tapped the entire country anyway.
但我们并没有就此止步
And we didn’t stop there,
因为一旦我们掌控了他们的通信系统
’cause once we owned their communications systems,
就开始把目标瞄向他们的基础设施上了
we started going after their physical infrastructure.
我们把这些间谍程序植入电网
We’d slip these little sleeper programs into power grids,
水坝 医院
dams, hospitals,
为的就是如果哪天
and the idea was if the day came
日本不再是我们的盟友
when Japan was no longer an ally,
我们能断掉他们的电源
it’d be lights out.
而且不仅是日本
And it wasn’t just the Japanese.
我们还在墨西哥 德国 巴西 奥地利
We were planting malware in Mexico, Germany,
都植入了恶意软件
Brazil, Austria.
中国 俄♥罗♥斯♥ 伊朗 委内瑞拉
I mean, China I can understand, or Russia, or Iran,
我都能理解 但是 奥地利
or Venezuela, okay. But Austria?
我们还被要求监视世界上大部分的领导人
You’re also being ordered to follow most world leaders
和产业巨头
and heads of industry.
要追踪贸易协定 性丑闻
You know, you’re tracking trade deals, sex scandals,
和外交电报 让美国
diplomatic cables to give the U.S.
在八国集团的谈判中占据优势
an advantage in negotiations at the G8,
或是制衡巴西石油公♥司♥
or leverage over Brazilian oil companies,
或是用来把某些第三世界
or helping to oust some
不配合的领导人赶下台
third-world leader who’s not playing ball.
最后 就真正理解了
And ultimately, the truth sinks in
不管你用任何理由说服自己
that no matter what justification you’re selling yourself,
这事跟恐♥怖♥主♥义♥无关
this is not about terrorism.
恐♥怖♥主♥义♥只是个借口
Terrorism is the excuse.
这是关乎经济和社会支配的事
This is about economic and social control.
你唯一在维护的
And the only thing you’re really protecting
就是自己国家政♥府♥的霸权
is the supremacy of your government.
你那个时候 有想过要找记者吗
Were you thinking about going to journalists then?
没有 当时我根本没有想到过
No. No, that wouldn’t have occurred to me back then.
我当时觉得 体制会自我修复
I just thought, you know, the system will self-correct,
总统会遵守当初竞选时许下的诺言
and the President will keep his promise that got him elected…
那时候 我第一次得知你
That’s actually when I first
和你的作品
started reading about you and your films.
是在格伦的博客上
It was in Glenn’s blog.
你被扣留在机场好几个小时
You were being detained in airports for hours.
三十七次了 就因为调查自己国家的战争
Thirty-seven times. For investigating your own country’s wars.
这就是我为什么要回柏林做编辑
That’s why I’m going back to Berlin to edit.
在这一点上 你要相信我
You can trust me with this.
我相信你
I do. Yeah.
我好几年都没信任过别人了
I haven’t trusted anyone in years.
他们把我派去监视恐♥怖♥主♥义♥时
It was a welcome change
是个很好的改变
when they put me on terrorism watch duty.
每天 我都会进入系统 查看SIGINT
Every day, I’d go in and I’d get starting points for SIGINT,
就是通信情报
which is signals intelligence.
监视的大多都是美国人 感觉很奇怪
A lot of them were American, which felt strange,
但你会一直告诉自己
but you just keep reminding yourself,
我可以阻止一场炸♥弹♥袭击
I could stop a dirty bomb attack
拯救成千上万人的生命
and save thousands of lives.
但事实上 你不仅是在追踪那些坏人
The thing is, you’re not just following your bad guy targets.
你还在追踪他们的元数据
You’re also following their metadata,
就是他们所联♥系♥过的
which is basically all the
所有电♥话♥号♥码
phone numbers that they’re in touch with.
比如说你的目标 是一个阴险的伊朗银行家
Let’s say your target is a shady Iranian banker
在贝鲁特做生意
operating out of Beirut, okay.
你在看他所有的资料时 同时也在看
So you’re watching his stuff, but you’re also watching
和他有联络的所有人的资料
all the people that he talks to.
其中包括了 他那个
Including, you know, his cousin,
在水牛城当牙医的表弟
who’s just some dentist living in Buffalo.
然后你就得查看所有跟他表弟有关联的人
And then you have to watch all of that guy’s contacts.
从原始目标开始 一直他到第三层联♥系♥
And by the time you go a third hop out from the original target,
你就会看到一个酒保
you’re watching this bartender
在跟他妈妈说肉毒杆菌的事
chat with her mother about Botox.
而每一个人的第三层联♥系♥ 假设有四十个
‘Cause three hops from anyone with, say, 40 contacts,
你的名单上就有250万人了
you’re looking at a list of 2.5 million people.
那个时候 你就呆坐在那
And there’s that moment when
被如此巨大的规模给吓到
you’re sitting there and the scale of it hits you.
国♥家♥安♥全♥局真的在监听世界上所有的手♥机♥
The NSA is really tracking every cell phone in the world.
不管你是谁
No matter who you are,
你的日常生活 都被存在了数据库里
every day of your life, you’re sitting in a database
等着被人观看
just ready to be looked at.
不只是恐♥怖♥份♥子♥ 或国家 或公♥司♥ 而是你
And not just terrorists, or countries, or corporations, but you.
林赛当时跟你一起在日本吗
Was Lindsay with you in Japan?
在日本我们过得很不好
Japan was difficult for us.
你应该不能说关于工作的事吧
I guess you couldn’t talk about your work.
不能
No.
有天晚上 一切快结束的时候
There was this one night, uh, towards the end,
我们打算第二天去爬富士山
when, uh, we were supposed to go climb Mount Fuji the next day…
你要把那照片发到推特上去吗
Are you gonna post that on Twitter?
不
No.
只是给我看的 你觉得怎么样
They’re just for me. What do you think?
你应该删了
You should delete those.
这可不是我期待的艺术批评啊
That’s not quite the artistic critique I was going for.
抱歉 你… 你应该…
I’m sorry. You just… You should…
你不能在硬盘里面存那种东西
You can’t have stuff like that on your hard drive.
我当然可以
Yes, I can.
你能不能… 算我求你 你能删了吗
Can you just please… I’m asking you, can you delete them?
又是什么俄♥罗♥斯♥黑客吗
Russian hackers again?
不是…
No…
是我们吗
Is it us?
这是机密
It’s classified.
我是目标吗
Am I a target?
当然不是
Of course not.
很显然有人看了我的裸体写♥真♥
Clearly someone is looking at my nude portraits.
好吧 我不该提起的
Okay. I shouldn’t have brought it up.
可以吗 这关乎到国家的安全问题
All right? It’s issues of national security.
我很荣幸我的胸
Well, I am flattered that my boobs
能牵扯到国♥家♥安♥全♥问题
are considered an issue of national security,
你这个理由没用了
but you’re gonna have to do a lot better than that.
我不想说一些 会让我们坐牢的事了
I’d rather not talk about stuff that could land us in jail.
那之前的那个创口贴是什么意思
So that’s what the Band-Aids are about, then?
镜头恐惧症吗
And your camera phobia?
因为工作吗
Because of work?
他们是不是在监视我们
Are they watching us?
– 谁在监视我们 – 没有人 好吗
– Who are they watching? – No one, okay?
不要再说了
Let’s just stop talking about it.
上♥床♥睡觉吧 然后明天早起